Author Topic: Slide lock and feeding issues  (Read 667 times)

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HSc742

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Slide lock and feeding issues
« on: August 19, 2018, 03:55:14 PM »
I recently took possession of a family heirloom Kreigsmarine HSc (742869). It hadnít been fired in 25 yrs so I stripped it down, cleaned and lubed it. When I removed the grips, the additional parts like the trigger bar, disconnector, etc. came loose so I did my best to reassemble everything. Iím having issues with the slide being hard to pull back and not staying locked back. It will lock back with an empty mag inserted, but close when the mag is removed. It will not lock back with the mag out.

I took it to the range to test fire it the other day. I loaded a couple of rounds and inserted the mag with the slide closed, then attempted to manual cycle the slide and load the first round into battery. The round only went halfway into battery but with a gentle wiggle I was able to get it in and the slide closed. The pistol fired perfectly but the second round failed to enter battery on the cycle.I ordered a complete spring set from Wolff as one possible next step but havenít installed them. In general, should I go ahead and replace all of the springs on the set as a preventative measure or only change them out to solve a specific problem?

Any thoughts on what might be going on here? Any advice would be appreciated!  By the way, my pistol has clear, plastic grips, not the traditional wood ones. Theyíve been on there since at least the 1950ís. Any chance those were original or aftermarket? Theyíre milled to a precise form and fit for the pistol.

Best regards,HSc742
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 04:58:57 PM by Warbird »

Warbird

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Re: Slide lock and feeding issues
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2018, 04:54:18 PM »
OK ... lots going on here.  Your Slide locking issue is probably caused by the Magazine Safety timing or wear.  Hopefully you have an Assembly Drawing, if not I can add it to the Forum post (can't on this message).  So the Magazine Safety is a spring loaded hooked bar on the left side of the Frame toward the rear.  It needs to be thoroughly cleaned and lubricated.  Check that is moves easily and the small spring at the rear of the bar is in place.  The hook at the forward end catches a notch in the Slide when a Magazine is removed (timing).  The Magazine Follower holds the Slide back until it is removed, then the Magazine Safety is supposed to drop in that notch to continue holding it back.

The two issues of the Slide being hard to pull back and the cartridge mis-feeds are both related to the Recoil Spring.  It's probably a replacement that is too strong.  Replace it with the Wolff Recoil Spring and I'm betting both problems go away.

The clear plastic Grips are after-market.  I know what you mean about the milled finish because I have a pair also.  I have attached a PDF file of the HSc Assembly drawing.  Part Numbers 7 and 30 are those I have been discussing.  I think that should do it.  Let me know how you make out.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 05:02:36 PM by Warbird »

HSc742

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Re: Slide lock and feeding issues
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2018, 08:47:30 PM »
Ok, I replaced the recoil spring with the Wolff spring. I cleaned the inside of the slide where the catch point is located. I cleaned and lubed the mag safety bar with WD40 and MP7. The mag safety spring is in place and appears to be functioning properly.  The mag safety bar rocks up and down; I donít have a prior reference point so I assume itís movement is appropriate. With the slide off, I inserted the mag to watch the mag catch the hook on the mag safety bar to raise the bar. When the mag is pulled out, the bar returns to its lower position.


That said, the slide will only lock back with the empty mag inserted. As soon as I pull the mag, the slide releases. It will not hold back with mag out. So problem not solved...


Whatís the next suggestion, replacing the mag safety bar itself? I did not replace the mag safety spring yet. Should I do that next? If so, how do you do that? Can you replace it without removing the mag safety bar?


As always, any help is greatly appreciated!

Warbird

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Re: Slide lock and feeding issues
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2018, 04:40:15 AM »
Have you replaced the Recoil Spring?  If not, it could be overpowering the Mag Safety.  The problem is there we just have to locate it.  In all these years I have only had one case where it had to be replaced and that was where it was obviously bent.

HSc742

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Re: Slide lock and feeding issues
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2018, 03:57:21 PM »
Yes, I replaced the recoil spring with the new Wolff spring. The new spring is definitely stiffer than the old one. Which part of the mag safety bar ďcatchesĒ the notch and holds the slide back, the downward hook at the end closest to the muzzle or the lateral bend at the other end near the spring? Does the disconnector play any part in the slide action?

Warbird

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Re: Slide lock and feeding issues
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2018, 05:13:25 PM »
The forward part of the bar contacts the Magazine when it is inserted.  The rear hook catches the notch in the Slide with an upward movement when the Magazine is released.  If you insert and release a Magazine you can see the whole cycle.

HSc742

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Re: Slide lock and feeding issues
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2018, 01:22:56 PM »
What is the process for replacing the mag safety spring? Can I do that without removing the mag safety bar or do I need to drift the pin holding the bar? I have a new spring from Wolff that I can try. Is it possible the spring is not raising the bar high enough to catch the slide? The only other thing I can think off is the hook on the bar is worn just enough that it slips out when then mag is removed.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 10:29:55 PM by HSc742 »

HSc742

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Re: Slide lock and feeding issues
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2018, 12:08:16 PM »
OK, so hereís where I am now. The good news is that I successfully replaced the recoil spring,  the trigger spring, and the mag safety spring, cleaning everything along the way.  :)  The bad news is that I still have the slide lock/release problem.  :(   The slide will not lock back with the mag out. I can lock the slide back with the mag inserted, but the slide moves forward as soon as I release the mag. My understanding is the slide SHOULD lock back with no mag and NOT move forward when an empty mag is released.


FWIW, racking the slide seems to be more difficult than it should be, taking a hard pull to get the initial rearward movement started. Not sure that helps explain things, but there go. 


Thoughts on where to look next...anyone???


Warbird

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Re: Slide lock and feeding issues
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2018, 12:39:21 PM »
Your understanding of the Slide/Magazine action is correct.  It was Mauser's innovative design to speed up reloading along with the tapered mouth of the Magazine Well.

I would suggest you reinstall the original Recoil Spring.  It sounds like your new Spring is for a .380 caliber, i.e., stronger, that could overwhelm the Magazine Safety.  If that doesn't work (with your new Magazine Safety Spring), the only thing left is to replace the Magazine Safety itself.

HSc742

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Re: Slide lock and feeding issues
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2018, 01:38:02 PM »
Roger that - Iíll try both. I suspect the mag safety bar is the culprit, given I saw the same behavior with the old recoil spring.  The only other moving part in that area is the disconnect bar. What does it do? Is it relevant to the slide operation?


Just wondering, for a normal functioning slide operation, is the slide pull back a smooth and linear effort or is there supposed to be hard resistance in the early stage of the pull back? Thanks!

Warbird

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Re: Slide lock and feeding issues
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2018, 02:54:29 PM »
The Disconnector moves the Trigger Bar to reset after firing the pistol.  It prevents the HSc from going into full auto.  So it is not relevant to your present problem.

The Slide recoil or "pull back" should be smooth and even until it meets the resistance of the Hammer cocking, forcing the Mainspring down and resetting it on the Sear.  Other than that, there is nothing to interfere with the normal rearward movement of the Slide.

HSc742

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Re: Slide lock and feeding issues
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2018, 11:06:26 AM »
Update: I ordered a new mag safety bar and repro walnut grips from Numrich. The mag safety was too thick to fit in the groove in the frame and the inside of the left grip wasnít milled to accommodate the protrusion of the disconnect bar, leading me to believe they were parts for later model/commercial versions of the HSc or .380 versions. Theyíve been returned and Iíve ordered a mag safety from Jack First parts to see if that fits better. The saga continues... :(

Warbird

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Re: Slide lock and feeding issues
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2018, 11:26:46 AM »
You are correct.  You have to specify WWII vintage for the part.

HSc742

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Re: Slide lock and feeding issues
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2018, 11:53:35 AM »
So I got another mag safety bar in and it was too thick to fit in the frame groove as well.  On closer inspection, the original mag safety bar has a precision milled recess on the inside of the mag safety bar that allows it to fit properly into the groove. Neither of the two versions I ordered had that recess. Can anyone confirm if the recess is an original wartime production feature? Did that get redesigned in later versions to simplify the manufacturing process?


UPDATE: I spoke to the parts company and they do have a period correct sample with the recess. They are milling the recess and sending me a new part. Progress.


UPDATE2: the new mag safety bar came in and IT FITS!!! The slide now functions properly, holding open when the magazine is removed and closing when itís inserted.  Now I need to test it at the range to make sure it cycles properly. I intend to replace the magazine spring as an extra measure to help with feeding into battery. Iíll post the final results after itís all checked out, but it looks good for now! Thank you for your help!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 05:19:17 PM by HSc742 »