Author Topic: Officers pistol or Bolo discussion  (Read 415 times)

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1914mauser

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Officers pistol or Bolo discussion
« on: January 28, 2019, 09:40:12 AM »
To all members,

I am interested in having a dialogue with other C96 collectors about the development, variations and categories of Mauser's C96 pistols with the smaller grip. From what I have read the first appearance of a smaller grip frame occurred on early Large Ring Hammer pistols and was referred to as the Officer's model. The first small grip being curved and without the accommodation for a stock attachment. The concept of a smaller grip was then changed to have straight sides and the stock slot re-appeared. It then appears several variations were produced to find the preferred combination of features to market. I have always considered the small grip frame examples to be "Bolo" models but this appears to be a poor choice of nickname as it is primarily derived from the post war (WWI) variation and seems to be misused to describe other variations with short barrels. I am interested in the thoughts of others.

Regards,
B. Mason
NAPCA member, NRA life member
aim small, mis small

fred klinknagel

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Re: Officers pistol or Bolo discussion
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2019, 03:34:52 PM »
Hello,this Bolo Mauser,de-milled ( holes drilled and welding) was sold Sunday 27 th,on an auction
in Germany. 1231 euro.

fred klinknagel

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Re: Officers pistol or Bolo discussion
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2019, 04:27:28 PM »
Hello, To my opinion : the name Bolo belongs to the models with short barrel and small grip,
witch can be used with the shoulder stock.Caliber 7,63x25.
The 1920 reworks with short barrels are not actual Bolo.Because not originally made with short barrels but shortend afther WW1 ( versailles ! )And as know do not have the small grip.

1914mauser

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Re: Officers pistol or Bolo discussion
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2019, 07:45:24 AM »
Everywhere I have read defines the term "Bolo" as a nickname derived from the Bolshevik preference of the small grip frame C-96. If this is where it originated it would not of been used for the pre WWI examples. I assume it like "Broomhandle" (an American slang name) is a slang term adopted by the public to differentiate the small grip frame from the standard C96. From my perspective Mauser's reasoning for developing a more compact variation would of been to make the pistol more suitable for issue to higher ranking officers. Thus the term "Officers model" would be in line with the intent.

Regards,
B. Mason
NAPCA member, NRA life member
aim small, mis small

vlim

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Re: Officers pistol or Bolo discussion
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2019, 11:35:54 AM »
The phrase 'officers pistol' was initially referring to the 6-shot C96.

1914mauser

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Re: Officers pistol or Bolo discussion
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2019, 01:01:47 PM »
Gerben,

I was hoping you would enter this discussion. It makes since that the 6 shot variations would be referred to "Officers pistol". I have noted that many of the early examples that have the smaller grip are 6 shot but there are 6 shot variations that are Conehammers. All with it standard length barrel and standard or large grip. The smaller grip does not appear until the Large Ring Hammer feature is established and these early small grip frame models with a shorter barrel seem to be in the 29,000 serial number range and were produced in 6 and 10 shot models.

Regards,
B. Mason
NAPCA member, NRA life member
aim small, mis small

fred klinknagel

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Re: Officers pistol or Bolo discussion
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2019, 02:32:10 PM »
Could it be ,that over the years it became common to name every short barrel C96 "bolo"?
Like every MP40 is called schmeisser ?


regards,Fred




vlim

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Re: Officers pistol or Bolo discussion
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2019, 03:51:32 PM »
I think that that scenario is very plausible.


Remember that Chinese slang for a gun is Mauser.


fred klinknagel

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Re: Officers pistol or Bolo discussion
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2019, 04:44:48 PM »
Yes I think so too,and Mauser sold many to the russians so over the years we called the short
pistols all "Bolo"
So what is correct ? the old models with short barrel and small grips,6 and 10 shot mags are the
[size=78%] officer's [/size][/size][size=78%]models ? Then came the shortend models afther WW1 because of the " versailles" that forbid the 9mm[/size]
calibers and barrels longer than 100mm ?( called the 1920 reworks ?). ( but I have seen shortend
"red 9 models) .
And afther that Mauser began production of the short model in 7,63x25 with in large numbers
were sold to Russia ?( nick named Bolo ? )
I dont know. But it is very interesting.
regards Fred

1914mauser

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Re: Officers pistol or Bolo discussion
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2019, 07:23:28 AM »
It is great to get perspectives from European collectors here on the forum. It is curious no American collectors are commenting. Though I have not found many American collectors of the C96 that participate in forum discussions. They appear to be either technology challenged or just unwilling to engage in discussions. As the term "Bolo" does not have a clear origin its use seem to be equally confused.

Regards, 
B. Mason
NAPCA member, NRA life member
aim small, mis small

fred klinknagel

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Re: Officers pistol or Bolo discussion
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2019, 03:34:30 PM »
In the book : Kleine waffen -Bibliothek- Heft 3- MauserStreifenlader Teil 2 .
Written by H.B Lockhoven.
-model 1916/1920 this is the shortend barrel 9 mm,rear sight fixed
- model 1912/1920 this is the shortend barrel 7,63 kaliber with the normal grip.
-model 1920 export,Bolo Mauser,factory made with 100mm barrel,small grip.


From the German weaponmagazine : Visier,March 2002:
Mauser build the compact models before 1914 but massproduction and sales to Russia and China
makes the Bolo famous.


And from many articles and books I have seen :
My opinion : some one at some time linked the short ,smallframe mauser,build in 1920 .
Most of them exported to Russia/China tot Blosheviks and named them Bolo.
In the years the name "bolo" became the nickname for every short model C96


Best regards ,Fred








1914mauser

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Re: Officers pistol or Bolo discussion
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2019, 07:47:16 AM »
This is basically the theory I am forming but I have some more information to review before I commit to it.

Regards,
B. Mason
NAPCA member, NRA life member
aim small, mis small

vlim

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Re: Officers pistol or Bolo discussion
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2019, 02:04:29 PM »
The problem is that Mauser  never used these designation.


Not even C96.....


The pistol was internally called the 'army pistol'.


Many designations were invented by collectors and authors with the urge to overclassify them.

fred klinknagel

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Re: Officers pistol or Bolo discussion
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2019, 04:19:12 PM »
I'll agree .


regards,Fred

1914mauser

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Re: Officers pistol or Bolo discussion
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2019, 07:04:34 PM »
My father always referred to them as "Military Mauser pistols". I always liked that name for them.

Regards,
B. Mason
NAPCA member, NRA life member
aim small, mis small