Mauser Guns Collectors Forum

Pistols => Model HSC Pistol => Topic started by: vlim on May 01, 2017, 10:28:42 AM

Title: .22lr HSc
Post by: vlim on May 01, 2017, 10:28:42 AM
To my surprise, the April 2017 Hermann Historica auction had an interesting pistol for sale: A post war Mauser HSc in .22lr.

This makes it the second complete HSc in .22lr that has been reported.
The other one carries number V001, a serial number of the Mauser R&D department.

The pistol on H-H has the slide markings removed, ostensibly to reduce weight, and has number 02.0001. I was able to purchase it and am now awaiting paperwork to get it over here. When it arrives, more details should hopefully follow.

Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: Warbird on May 01, 2017, 11:55:21 AM
Congratulations Gerben!  Another excellent (and rare) acquisition!  Looking forward to further info when it lands on your doorstep.
Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: 1914mauser on May 02, 2017, 06:56:51 PM

That is exciting news and congratulations! I hope you will share some pictures.

Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: vlim on May 03, 2017, 04:22:57 PM
This is the auction photo.
Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: 1914mauser on May 03, 2017, 07:59:59 PM
That is exciting!
Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: jcorl on May 04, 2017, 05:59:07 PM
Super work.  Many congratulations. 

Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: vlim on May 05, 2017, 08:26:30 AM
A funny anecdote about the post war .22lr production was told to me by a former export manager of Mauser, who was there at the time.

During a meeting at the R&D department at Sulgen in Schramberg, not far from Oberndorf, the idea of production of a .22lr HSc was discussed. One of the marketing guys explained that it would be too expensive and technically impossible to produce a .22lr version of the HSc pistol. At that time, R&D manager Ludwig Vorgrimler reached in his coat pocket and pulled out a .22lr HSc and showed it to the group, with a large grin :)

The marketing guy must have had a point, because although plans for a .22lr version were present and a few prototypes were built, even manuals were printed, the .22lr HSc never made it onto the market.

Serial numbering would have followed the style already introduced on the .32 and .380 versions:
00.xxxx for the .32 ACP.
01.xxxx for the .380.
02.xxxx for the .22lr.

The pistol I bought has part of the slide stripped off. One theory was that it was stripped to reduce the mass / weight of the slide in order to improve recoil.

Another pistol was also offered at H-H, still a .32 ACP version with a normal, commercial serial number. It also had part of the slide stripped off. I looked up the serial number of that pistol in the Mauser production book and found that it was never released for sale and was proofed about 1 year later than all other pistols in the same serial range. This indicated to me that the .32 ACP with the stripped slide was also tied to R&D work by Mauser and most likely related to the work done on the creation of the .22lr version. A preliminary theory is that perhaps Mauser tested a uniform slide weight / mass that would work for .22lr / .32 / .380 versions. It would have made it cheaper to produce the .22 if the basic slide properties for all calibers were as close to each other as possible.

Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: Mauro on May 07, 2017, 05:20:48 AM
Cool pistol and info!
Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: vlim on June 27, 2017, 08:21:07 AM
The pistol arrived here.

It was interesting to see that the pistol has a fluted chamber, this helps to extract the .22lr case. It came with 2 magazines, both of different construction, one with a magazine button, one without.

The pistol was proofed in 1968 and shows signs of a lot of use. The box it came in also contained the original hammer, sear and trigger bar for the .32 version. Slide weight has been reduced by some 30-40 grams.

I will do more detailed photos when I have more time.

Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: vlim on June 27, 2017, 08:33:59 AM
The .32 ACP pistol actually had a fun modification that was not too obvious at first:

The chamber block has had a small hole drilled in front of it, in line with the barrel. Also the barrel has a small notch milled at the bottom, straight across, against the chamber block.

The spring has been modified so it slots in the notch and locks in the small pin hole drilled in the chamber block. This effectively locks the spring in place against the chamber area. It is a bit of an unusual modification, as I don't think there ever was a real problem with the barrel spring being able to rotate....

The modification failed, the small area of the spring that was bent to allow it to fit in the pin hole snapped off, and now it is just working as a regular spring. The gun carries a 1969 proof date. One year after it came from the production line.

Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: jcorl on June 27, 2017, 11:18:55 AM
THat is fascinating!  Thank you for sharing.

Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: vlim on June 28, 2017, 12:54:25 PM
I was informed that the .32 spring/barrel modification was done for German Police trials. It was one of the requirements that the spring was not allowed to rotate freely on the barrel.

Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: jcorl on June 28, 2017, 04:45:54 PM
I wonder what advantage that would have in the firearm?  Better accuracy?  More reliable feeding?  Interesting information.

Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: vlim on June 29, 2017, 07:55:29 AM
European police requirements are usually not based on any form of logic :)
Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: vlim on July 02, 2017, 10:25:56 AM
Some more detailed shots of the innards of the .22lr version:

Notice the grooved/fluted chamber, facilitating extraction of the case.
Also note the lack of the 'S' safety marking under the safety catch.

(and yes, the chamber was dirty, I cleaned it in the mean time and it looks pristine).
Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: jcorl on July 02, 2017, 07:14:37 PM
Those photos make for a sweet example.  I just told the wife I need to be shopping for one.   Thank you for the additional photos.  I love that safety.   

Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: Warbird on July 02, 2017, 09:31:22 PM
Sorry Jim ... that's the only one!
Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: jcorl on July 03, 2017, 11:45:45 AM
Darn!  Perhaps Vlim will grow tired of it.   
Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: Freddyet on December 20, 2017, 06:47:38 PM
Enjoyed the info concerning the hsc in 22 caliper . I think what is interesting , is that the designer of the hsc - I believe went on to found Heckler and Koch . The HK4 has a 22 lr conversion .
Title: Re: .22lr HSc
Post by: Warbird on December 21, 2017, 08:41:35 PM
That is correct, Freddyet.  Edmund Heckler and Theodor Koch co-founded HK along with Alex Seidel, the designer of the HSc.  In 1964, Seidel and Tilo Möller went on to design the Model HK4, an update of the HSc.  It was designated the HK4 because it was sold in 4 conversion calibers:  .22LR, 6.35mm (.25 caliber), 7.65mm (.32 caliber) and 9mm Kurz (.380 caliber), all in the same box.